I'd like to welcome you all back to the Counseling and Psychological
Services podcast series. I'm Dr. Derek Vigon. We're here today with
Phil Wilkerson from Career Services. Industry advisor. Industry
advisor. So today, we are going to be speaking a little bit about the
stigma associated with African-American men seeking counseling
services. Phil, I was hoping you could chat a little bit about some of
the knowledge you have in this area, research you've done, other
reactions you have. All right. Well, I'm not a doctor. Shout out to
you, big thanks. But I do have my master's in counseling from George
Mason University. I believe that set the foundation of my
understanding of mental health and the power of counseling. But I
would say previously to that, I think that I was under the guise that
the only people that sought counseling or help were crazy people,
coocoo crazy people. It wasn't until I was exposed to the power of
counseling and how impactful it is by going through the program that I
realized that mental health is for everyone. It's like your fitness
level. No one that seeks help is coocoo crazy. It's basically like
going to the doctor and getting routine checkups, just like you would
think about high blood pressure or your joints or your knees hurting.
You just need to routinely check in on your mental, your well-being.
But that took a long time. Right. I so appreciate you reflecting on
this. So being an African-American man yourself, what would you say
are maybe culturally or societally some of the stigma areas or some of
the things that get in the way of particularly some identity
components getting in the way of you seeking counseling services, or
more generally, young males seeking counseling services? Well, I grew
up around this area. If we talked about things like feelings and
things like that, people would call you soft, or if you showed any
vulnerability, that's an overt sign of weakness. I think that a lot of
people, even societal, look at black men in a positive way as very
strong. Strong men with regards to physical strength and just dealing
with a lot. Tough men, you man up. So I think that people don't
understand the weight of trying to hold that facade in regards to how
society looks at you, that over time, that wears down on you that when
you feel like you're at all depressed or anxious, that you're not
living up to the standards of a strong black man, and that by showing
that vulnerability, that you are some way lacking in strength. I think
that's quite opposite. Either way, whether maturing as an adult and
seeing the behind the scenes of maybe my parents dealt with this but
just never talked about it, their feelings, or just in general, I
think more and more the culture, the world is being more accepting of
anyone being vulnerable with their mental health. I don't think it's
the same. But growing up, that was the notion that I had growing up,
was that if you showed vulnerability, if you showed that you cry or
that you show that you're anxious, that's a sign of weakness. I hate
that I'm putting air quotes, but that would make you "less black" or a
"less strong" black male, by being vulnerable. When you're saying less
black, would that be less black within your own community, within the
larger global community? You could just speak to- I think it's
twofold. Obviously, outward world sees you as black male and then in
your own culture. So I think it's two in regards to how you carry
yourself in the world. I tell people all the time I think it's always
crazy that certain people had these identities and they say, "Just
look at me as a human being." But let's be real. Racial identity is
ever present regardless if you think of this or not, the human being
thing like, "I'm not black, I'm Philip." Well, that may be true in
regards to how I carry myself in my life. I am Philip. I want people
to identify me for my character. That Martin Luther King quote, "Judge
me by the content of my character, not the color of my skin." But on
the flip side, I'm not naive to know that when I walk outside in the
world, I carry this identity. I carry my blackness, but physically,
how I look. So I think it's just two-fold: how the world sees you and
how you see yourself in the mirror and the community too. Right. I
think that's such an important point that you bring up. Specifically,
I think we're talking about increasing awareness for everybody
involved, everyone in the community. What are some ideas that you have
regarding potentially reaching this major group that we've been
missing in the counseling center nationwide? I think the craziest
thing is the power of peers, the power of seeing people like you and
then realizing you're not alone. I remember particularly when I
started going through my own counseling program back when I was in my
master's program. I started off in the school counseling track and
then I switched over to community agency because I thought I wanted to
do more, I wanted to be a career counselor. So that's why I switched.
But I was just still going through a tough time even in grad school. I
was dealing with what a lot of people call impostor syndrome, meaning
I thought I was less than. I thought they're going to catch on that I
don't belong in this master's program. That was really weighing on me.
It was making me upset, making me really doubt my papers that I was
turning in, all these things. I realized, if I'm in a counseling
program and I'm going to be preaching the good word of counseling,
maybe I'll just try it out for myself. I actually went to CAPS and I
realized how, "Wow, this feels really good to do this, to have someone
non-judgmental." So I think what would help with black men,
particularly this group for this podcast, is that group mindset,
whether it's a group counseling, a counseling group, particularly for
a safe space for black men, or being able to reach out to someone and
realize that you're not alone. I think also additionally what's
helpful for me, and I'm not trying to be racist or anything, but
seeing a black counselor also helps. Seeing someone that when you go
to the counseling session and they are a person of color just like you
and they're helping you, it lowers that stigma. It's like, "Wow, this
person is trained and this person is like me. This person look like
me." I think that will help bring down the barriers. I think what
you're talking about, too, is particularly being at Mason, a
majority-minority institution trying to have more staff represent and
just in terms of that one diversity component of what a lot of our
students may look like and making them feel more safe that way. Yeah,
it does. Diversity inclusion, and I tell a lot of people, diversity
inclusion is not just, we have a diverse group. We don't have just you
check a box that we have X, Y, and Z. That's diversity. But inclusion
is also feeling a sense of belonging. I think that students on a
reflective side see that. If they see that the institution that
they're working at, they have people that they look up to that look
like them, that gives them aspirations like, "I could be like that
person one day." When you look at people older than you, in regards to
being stigmatized, when I looked to my father, my parents, black men
never really talked about it. So by seeing someone older than me, not
just a peer but someone older than me that's either vulnerable or also
knows this thing and knows feelings, I think it helps the generation
underneath them feel more comfortable in this space. Yeah. Phil, I
love the way that you're talking about all these things. But it's so
clear to me how much of a model Mason Community member you are in the
way that you're able to model this vulnerability, still maintain the
identity of being a strong black male, and continue to impact our
youth. It sounds like there's been a lot of courage in your process.
Let's speak to that. I was literally about to say that too. I try to
tell people, and I think one of the things when someone comes to you
when they're really having a hard time is the affirmation that they're
not alone, they're not crazy. No, I'll never use that word: that
person's crazy. I try to remove that from my vocabulary. Normalizing
what they're going through. Normalizing. Yeah, exactly. Also, I love
the word courage because that does take a lot of courage. Actually,
quite honestly for someone to be vulnerable, I give them kudos. I say
you are strong. You are actually stronger than you think because
that's a big step. So if someone that's going against their cultural
norms, that takes a lot of courage. For instance, if you're in a group
of black men and you're hanging out with your boys and you say to
them, "Yo, guys, I am not doing well. I legit I'm not sleeping well,
I'm crying," or whatever, that takes a lot of courage because you can,
one, be ostracized, or two, you can be made fun of. So that takes a
lot of courage to put yourself out there. But surprisingly, I realized
too when you do take a lot of courage like that, you'll be very
surprised that most times, people don't make fun of you, and most
times people don't ostracize you. You'll get one or two people,
they'll be like, "Wow. He's doing it, I can do it too." If you were
giving a message to maybe some black men who were considering coming
in or had potentially some obstacles on the way, what would be some
feedback or some guidance you might give to them in terms of taking
that step of getting counseling? One, maybe take baby steps. One could
be just going to a group and you don't even have to talk. You can just
go to a group counseling session. That's been really helpful. Or a
workshop. Or a workshop. Because the power of group is very powerful.
Just because you go and talk to someone, you think they're going to
give you some medical slip and say that you're this and that and that
and diagnose you. Sometimes it's just talking, and that's really
therapeutic. Again, I think you leave us today with so many good
talking points and thinking points about how to really engage this
community in need. So thankful for your insight today. Remind folks
where they can find you on campus, Philip. Career Services. So I'm on
the third floor. I'm the industry advisor, particularly for media,
arts, and design. We have industry advisors for other industries like
health and science, tech and engineering, education, all different
ones. If you're still figuring out what you want to do and you're in
early phases, you can go see a career counselor and do a little bit of
exploration with assessments. But I'm the industry advisor, so it's
more niche into that industry. But we're on the third floor, Sub 1
Suite 3400. I also want to just shout out Mason's Employee of the
Month, Mr. Philip Wilkerson. Thank you again for your time this
afternoon, and we look forward to connecting again in the future.
Excellent.